[Marshall Law]

So basically, a Norton/ToneZone setup without the Dual Resonance(which I hate anyway). LOL

Yes thats correct and since this guy actually works for them i tend to believe him and it just makes logical sense to me as well. so i am going to try and make a screw/screw coil tone zone and see,if it works out i will go to the screw/screw air norton
The ONLY problem is that both coils will have screws and no slug poles? that does effect the magnetism and probably tone but how much i am not sure, it can be enough to really be a drastic effect,or the two coils on any standard bucker would be very different and that not the case only with dimarzio's DR design  but what i think i will do is set the screws all equal height.

For those that did not know the TONE ZONE was one of the LAST 2 pu's left for eddie to choose from,this was said by steve blucher in a Iheartguitar interview here,

http://iheartguitar.blogspot.com/2009/03/interview-dimarzios-steve-blucher.html

IHG: With regard to when you said pickups don't exist in a vacuum, I imagine you seek feedback from various players from different genres when designing a new pickup? For example, Paul Gilbert was featured in an ad for the Tone Zone - did he have any feedback into its development?

Blucher: We sometimes seek opinions from players in different genres, but not when a pickup is being designed for a specific player or style of music. Paul Gilbert didn't provide any input towards the development of the Tone Zone. The only player who did was Eddie Van Halen, in the course of doing the pickups for the MusicMan EVH guitar. My understanding is that the final choice for the bridge pickup was between the TZ and the pickup he actually chose, and it almost literally came down to a coin toss.

[Defender2000]

Hey Ed, thanks for chiming in on my thread. I've read some of your posts in some other threads, and you seem pretty knowledgeable on this subject. I have no reason to doubt what you said about the tone zone and the air norton. It seems to be the consensus that the axis bridge is 2 screw coils on the tone zone.

I find the readings you got on your at-1 and axis bridge interesting. It seems the resistance readings aren't really consistent. I am using an f-spaced at-1 for this project. This pickup will be going in the bridge of one of my project guitars.

I still don't think I want to give up on removing the VV slugs, even though it seems like it's gonna be a pain in the ass. I'm the kinda person who just likes taking things apart and seeing how they work.

[Marshall Law]

Hey Ed, thanks for chiming in on my thread. I've read some of your posts in some other threads, and you seem pretty knowledgeable on this subject. I have no reason to doubt what you said about the tone zone and the air norton. It seems to be the consensus that the axis bridge is 2 screw coils on the tone zone.

I find the readings you got on your at-1 and axis bridge interesting. It seems the resistance readings aren't really consistent. I am using an f-spaced at-1 for this project. This pickup will be going in the bridge of one of my project guitars.

I still don't think I want to give up on removing the VV slugs, even though it seems like it's gonna be a pain in the ass. I'm the kinda person who just likes taking things apart and seeing how they work.

If you do get those Virtual vintage slugs out the pup will have a lot more bite and presence. dimarzio is not lying when they said the AT-1 is the closest to the axis bridge but it seem to get the same pup you have to use two screw TZ coils according to the guy at dimarzio. I think most will find the modded AT-1 more than close enough to where they wont want to make a double screw TZ like me and you! LOL

[jmcorey]

So basically, a Norton/ToneZone setup without the Dual Resonance(which I hate anyway). LOL

So, since the Air Norton is half Fred & half TZ, wouldn't this make the neck pup close to an aired Fred?

[Marshall Law]

So basically, a Norton/ToneZone setup without the Dual Resonance(which I hate anyway). LOL

So, since the Air Norton is half Fred & half TZ, wouldn't this make the neck pup close to an aired Fred?

No not at all the neck axis pup is at 15K and has even coils the fred is at 10K with dual resonance coils

[crguti]

bump to this thread.

What were the results of the 2 screws coils of the tone zone?

[Marshall Law]

bump to this thread.

What were the results of the 2 screws coils of the tone zone?

according to member zerocool
"Zerocool says:
March 7, 2011 at 5:20 pm
Hey Lone Phantom,
Nice article! Just wanted to let you know about something. Currently I have 2 TZ screw coils together and sounds even better than when I had it half air modded!
Well, I’ve notcied that just putting the magnet against the screw coil does what its supposed to, but is still lacking “something”. And I also did this to my air norton and it also was lacking “something”.
So, I decided to put the metal spacer back in the air norton, BUT! I did it so the thinner side of the metal spacer was facing the magnet. The slug coil still had the spacers on it and the magnet fit perfectly. Sounds great now!
If I had thought of this before, I might have not done the TZ screw coil mod. Could you try this on a TZ? Also, You might have to use some sort of spacer[toothpick?] between the magnet and slug coil. I’m guessing this might be the missing piece of the half air mod. I think this all has to do with “inductance”, which i’m not really too sure what that means. But at least the half air norton sounds good !!
Good Luck! "

 MY REPLY,
ed hunter says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
July 13, 2012 at 3:28 am
According to steve at dimarzio as he puts it “the TZ is the closest we offer to the axis it is half way to a axis bridge pu” Hmmm??? wonder what he meant by that??? Hmmm? LOL!
anyway the axis bridge pu’s i own are all balanced coils each coil reads at 8.8K and my tone zones are screw coil 8.8K slug col 9.2K
Dimarzio will NOT confirm it but IMHO the AT-1 is a aired/VV’ed axis each coil on mine reads at 8.6K so i unaired it BUT i dont know how to get out those VV slugs? they are set into the coil with no way to grab at em? anyway the un-aired AT-1 is outstanding! EVEN IF it is not 100% a axis it sounds more than close enough in the same guitar to fool the sharpest of ears(except if you are eric johnson! )LOL!



KEEP in mnd this was BEFORE the AT-1 was available for retail sale, the TZ WAS the closest till now

[MusicManPup]

Hey folks ...hope someones looking into that topic,

I was wondering how i could get rid of the heavily compressed sound of the axis pups. Or at least I would really like to add some presence to them just to make them more suitable for marshall style amps.
The axis pups are really rigigd/strict, they won´t sound unless you pick the string completely.
When you play the axis on lets say a medium gain amp you really have to fight (well, I do) for the palm muted runs (not metal, but lets say punk rock stuff like Billy Idol). So adding presence would result in a better sensitivity when touching the strings.

I always feel like guitars with medium output (PAF-style) pups are easier to play.
I mean the axis pups aren´t that high output regardless of the ~17k (have to meassure in henry for that) notice if you roll the volume off pull a string and raise the vol.
I always think:"what!!! volume is full way up??.

They are strong in the whole mids and bass but they dont sparkle enough to me.
I mean I don´t want to swap them because i really like those mids. It´s just a something that lacks to get the tone fanned out like on a Les Paul but with that strong mids.

So what would you consider doing to them to get more clarity, let´s say to "convert" a lil of the compressed sound into some usefull highs since there are no VV slugs that i can take off?

[buddroyce]

My answer is.. sell me the Axis pickups and get an AT-1 which has a bit more sparkle and less of the mids/bass the axis pickusp do(at least to me).

[Marshall Law]

 

My answer is.. sell me the Axis pickups and get an AT-1 which has a bit more sparkle and less of the mids/bass the axis pickusp do(at least to me).

   good one budd!

I honestly think the AT-1 has less presence/sparkle than the axis bridge pu. at least in stock form.
if you re after a more medium output pu with better sparkle the PAF pro is the one.
ironically enough it is a "lighter" sounding version of the axis bridge pu you have now.
both are based on a paf but tweaked for more output and a extended eq.

[ct88]

Bump!
Hey Ed, how did you removed the VV poles?? i'm trying to do the same things, but the only thing that came up is to drill them :\ also swapped the slugs between a tone zone and the AT-1 for correct de-airing

ct

[jmrckr]

Hey every one. I'm new on the forum. I don't know if this conversation is still active but ... here I am. I am really obsessed (I know, I'm not the only one) with Van Halen sound, especially the 91'-95' area with musicman/dimarzio gear. I want to wind a set of replicas of those musicman axis pickups. (I'm not working for a big pickup company or anything like that, I'm just a guy that really loves to experiment with guitar gear) So, here is what I got : (please, don't be shocked or mad about what I say or whatever, we are just talking)

Thanks Defender2000 for showing a picture of the pickup opened and your DC resistance readings. But I have some questions still .... The spacer under the screw coil is made out of plastic or metal (ferromagnetic material) ? If it is plastic, this means that the pickup is half-aired ... but it looks like its a metallic spacer ? Have you ever removed the same spacer ? What's under it ? Is there anything that looks like vv technology ? Mebay A half vv humbucker wound give that unbalanced tone ? I'm asking thoss questions only to be sure and clear of what are facts, and what are speculations. I know that it does not make sens because EVH signature musicman guitars were made from 1991 to 1995, and the air patent, as well as the vv patent from dimarzio were deposed in 1997. I don't think that dimarzio would produce some pickups with new technologies without a patent. Last question : the DC readings shows that the coils are wound at the same resistance. But is it possible that each coil is wound with a different wire gauge to the same resistance ? (ex: 44 with less wire turns, and 43 with more wire turns). Again, this wound explain the unbalanced humbucker tone.

If anything of what I wrote is not a part of the design of this pickup, then it means that it is too simple and I'm search waayyy to far. 

Oh, by the way, I did remove the vv poles from a paf 36th anniversary. It is really tricky ... I drilled them with a small drill bit, then I took a wood screw, screwed it just a bit in the hole to make it bite, and pulle the pole out. They are not headless screws ... well for the dp223.

[airguitar]

It's true what they said about the two screw side tone zone sounding like the axis bridge pickup . I have modified two tone zones all black and a all cream pickup and combined the two screw side the cream and the black to give the axis look . Man I'm blown away the fuckin pickup sounds 100% like the axis bridge humbucker . I did the same thing to the  Norton pickup and I notice that the 7ohm reading was the slug side red/black and the screw side read 5ohm green/white . So I combined the 2 slug coils together and it sounded awful so I decided to put it back to the way it was an Air Norton . So if I were you I would only do the 2 Tone Zone screw coils and just leave the air Norton the way it is .