[aselix]

So, in looking at the low output dimarzio humbuckers, what to try than stands up well to distortion, and doesn't collapse or have that chimey end when presented with a lot of gain?  Going into a charvel natural custom series (roasted mahogany body, roasted maple neck).
Thanks

[gregr]

What is the amp and why are you looking for low output humbuckers? As a general rule these with have a bright and chimey top end.

One DiMarzio that breaks this rule is the Steve Morse Neck. It has a lot of inductance  giving it a very warm top end, but isn’t high in output. The pick attack has somewhat of a thuck sound. I have no idea whether it makes for a good bridge pickup. Check with DiMarzio.

One thing to be aware of is that a dark pickup will be bass heavy which can easily get muddy with a high gain amp if not addressed at the front end of the amp, either by way of an overdrive or an amp with pre-gain tone stack like the Mesa Mark series or one that aggressively tightens the bottom end at the front end..

[aselix]

Using a marshal JVM410jhs head and mesa 4x12.  This is capable of insane gain, but that's not the goal, just a healthy amount for leads. 

I want the right blend of power and dynamics.  The Mojoe has a good blend of these two traits, but maybe a bit too much power.

Air classics be a good choice?  How do they handle gain?

[gregr]

I’m a Marshall guy and have owned quite a few over the years. While I don’t have a Satch JVM, I have a standard JVM. Hard rock lead is what I mainly do and when I solo I use a healthy amount of gain.

My go-to bridge pickups are the Duncan Screamin’ Demon and Duncan 59 Bridge. I’m currently pairing the Demon with the Humbucker from Hell and normally pair the 59 Bridge with a 59 Neck though I also like the Duncan Alnico Pro. All of these pickups are bright, clear and dynamic. I don’t have any issues with the top end when playing with high gain.

Based on what I’ve heard I don’t find the Air Classics to have the same clarity as other vintage output pickups.

If I were to go with a lower output DiMarzio bridge pickup it would be the 36th. I once recommended the Transition Neck for the bridge position and was told that it sounded very good with high gain. Admittedly the recommendation was based on the specs back before DMZ did low and high mids. The thing with DiMarzio is that their numbers and descriptions are usually spot-on.

[darkbluemurder]

Moe Joe would not have too much gain as it is in the hot PAF territory. The highs are there but not sharp. I think it would be a good choice. Probably the 36th anniversary bridge would also be good but I never played one.

Cheers Stephan

[gregr]

If we’re talking medium output humbuckers at this point, there are a number of good pickups. If you’re after Joe’s tone then that pickup makes the most sense. I have an AT-1 and The Breed Neck that I’m running in the bridge. They are both noticeably hotter than PAF output and feel different under the fingers as well.

[aselix]

I've got the Moe Joe in a Ibanez JS2400 where it belongs...sounds great for that guitar.

For the charvel, it's so dense and middy it works well with scooped mid pickups.  I'm thinking about trying the air classics as I like the Alnico 5 sounds and its low output, which I'm looking for.  How do these pickups hold up against high gain?  Again, not insane but think 80's type gain.  Plenty but not crushing..

[gregr]

I wouldn’t call A5 pickups low output. It’s a strong magnet.

Mid heavy guitar? You’re better off with a Seymour Duncan. A Custom Custom or Custom 5 would be the way to go with that guitar. A Custom Custom is the lower output model and has a more even EQ. It was EVH’s pickup on Fair Warning.

Quick question through. Does it have the stock pickup and is it a JB? That could explain the mids. It’s not my favorite pickup though it sounds and feels better with an A2 magnet.

[darkbluemurder]

When you say "dense and middy" are you saying low mids, center mids or high mids? If the guitar has a lot of low mids I would not use any of the Duncan Custom models and stay with a lower output pickup, e.g. PAF type, Moe Joe at the higher end. If the guitar is focused in the center mids, then Custom 5 would be a good choice. I have rarely seen a guitar having too much high midrange, though.

Cheers Stephan

[gregr]

For reference the Custom 5 is hotter and more scooped compared to the Custom Custom and very well may be the better choice between the two. Both sound more like a hot PAF than any DiMarzio I’ve ever heard.

I’m still interested in what is in the guitar now as a reference. Charvels often use the JB and I believe the Duncan Distortion. The Custom 5 and Custom Custom have less output than either.

[gregr]

This is an interesting video comparing the DiMarzio 36th set vs the Duncan 59 set. They are very similar. The DiMarzio has a softer top end and a slightly thicker midrange.

https://youtu.be/mCBu9-Xce1w

[gregr]

This is the Fred vs Custom Custom. I wasn’t able to find a comparison with a Mo’ Joe.

https://youtu.be/TNnBjTDBEpo

[darkbluemurder]

For reference the Custom 5 is hotter and more scooped compared to the Custom Custom

That was also my observation after changing the A2 in the CC to A5.

I’m still interested in what is in the guitar now as a reference. Charvels often use the JB and I believe the Duncan Distortion. The Custom 5 and Custom Custom have less output than either.

I had the Custom 5 back to back with a JB type pickup in the same guitar and found the outputs rather similar. However, if the guitar has a certain midfrequency the JB accentuates the JB will appear louder. The Distortion should have more output due to the ceramic magnet.

Cheers Stephan

[gregr]

The JB has that hump in the midrange that the Customs don’t have. It also has more inductance, hence the higher output with all other things being equal. It is also more compressed.

Like with many others I found that the JB can make one guitar sound horrible and make another sound great.

On the Custom front I’ve always liked this demo. He doesn’t play the same thing with each pickup, but the unique character of each is still on display.

https://youtu.be/kLfRvjjAwf0

Of the bunch I think the original ceramic Custom sounds most like a PAF due to the top end. It has often been referred to as a PAF on steroids. I shy away from this pickup because of the ice-pick that it is known for having. Then again that was back when I didn’t make use of my volume and tone controls, always keeping them at 10. I didn’t know the extent to which volume affects tone either.

[LPBII]

Maybe a little late to the party, but the Air Classic would be the one in my opinion based on the original post. It's a little scooped, and loves high gain amps. It cleans up decently with healthy gain and retains PAF type picking dynamics. Never flubby in my experience. It's listed at about 225 mv output but it plays like it has more, especially once you get the height dialed in.

The 36th bridge has a bell like chime, which I love, but you say you don't want that. It's also denser in the mids.

I haven't tried the Fortitude yet, but as a tweeked 36th for hard rock it might be something to consider.