[dxlxntxxlxr]

Im changing the neck pickup in my basswood HH Jackson Soloist (Floyd Rose). I have a Seymour Duncan Invader in the bridge position. I play neoclassical metal, thrash metal, death metal, metalcore, deathcore, and some punk rock. I need the neck to be good for fast legato runs, sweeps, tapping, speed picking etc. Which pickup would be better? Thanks!

[RayBarbeeMusic]

I generally like DiMarzios better than Duncans but the Full Shred neck is one pickup Duncan does very well that DiMarzio has no answer for. 

If you want something bright but not thin, and tight, and articulate, it is GREAT for that. I use them in the neck positions of a ton of guitars.

I also do one more trick with them:  To tighten up the bass on low notes on the low strings, I remove 3 screws from the neck side coil under the bass strings, run the rest of the poles on that coil flush with the bobbin top, and adjust the poles on the other coil until I get even string balance (generally raise high E and b, run G flush, raise D about like high E and A just a tad, run low E flush). 

That makes the low strings tight almost like a single coil, and keeps the sound full on the higher strings.  You can do fast picked muted runs all the way from low E and they are tight and percussive sort of like a single, while the higher notes/strings stay articulate and full sounding. 

Try it, it will blow your mind.

The only DiMarzio full sized bucker that I can do that kind of thing with is the Super 2, and I remove ALL the screws from the neck side coil.  Sounds like a really loud single coil. 

You can do the same thing with a Humbucker from Hell that I do to the full Shred neck, but you have to remove the A5 mag, remove one keeper bar, install a ceramic mag, and even then, honestly the full shred neck does it better.

[dxlxntxxlxr]

Thanks! Im thinking of maybe replacing the invader with a nazgul or a pegasus, however im a bit worried that the nazgul and the pegasus are too voiced for drop tuning and that breakdowns wont be heavy enough in e standard as they have less bass than the invader. Also i recently heard the sentient and i am probably gonna go with that instead of the full shred because the lows and mids sound more articulate. What do you think?

[RayBarbeeMusic]

If you do the mod that I suggested, the sentient will have no where near the articulation of the full shred.

[DarthPhineas]

My experience with them both leads me to think the the PAF Pro is a little more open sounding than the Full Shred.

In many cases...not all, but many...the Duncan methodology is to wind things on the hot side, which can lead to a more compressed or congested vibe. That's not something I hear in the PAF Pro.

[RayBarbeeMusic]

"My experience with them both leads me to think the the PAF Pro is a little more open sounding than the Full Shred.

In many cases...not all, but many...the Duncan methodology is to wind things on the hot side, which can lead to a more compressed or congested vibe. That's not something I hear in the PAF Pro. "

Note that he's talking about a NECK Pickup. 

PAF Pro A5 mag 42 ga wire std. insulation long hex poles wound to 8.4k. 

Full Shred Neck:  A5 mag 42 ga wire thick insulation (i.e. less coil capacitance robbing high end) short hex poles (i.e. less low end) wound to about 7.5K. 

[DarthPhineas]

Note that he's talking about a NECK Pickup. 

And... the PAF Pro is a little more open and the Duncan product is a little tighter/compressed.

And....Duncan's methodology is to slightly over wind. 

[RayBarbeeMusic]

Note that he's talking about a NECK Pickup. 

And... the PAF Pro is a little more open and the Duncan product is a little tighter/compressed.

And....Duncan's methodology is to slightly over wind.

Except that in the specific case of those two pickups, the Duncan is far more open/bright, and not at all overwound. 

[DarthPhineas]

I'll let the dude at Duncan know he's wrong.

LOL!

[RayBarbeeMusic]

If some "dude" at Duncan told you something different than this:

PAF Pro A5 mag 42 ga wire std. insulation long hex poles wound to 8.4k. 

Full Shred Neck:  A5 mag 42 ga wire thick insulation (i.e. less coil capacitance robbing high end) short hex poles (i.e. less low end) wound to about 7.5K. 


He's wrong.  Give me his name, and I'll tell him.

[DarthPhineas]

Maybe an older FSn has thicker insulation, but not for some time. Or are you just looking at the wire color?....knowing they can get wire in whatever color they want.

Type of wire insulation is one thing. The actual wire and how it's wound is another.

PAF Pro meters at 13% less capacitance than FSn.

Of course, I do have samples that come within the current accepted range - 8.241 k for PAF Pro, 7.242 k for FSn. Some samplings of PAF Pros have been as high as upper 10s, and that might be a different story.

Still, if you have an older FSn made prior to their current CNC methods, you probably have a much better example to work with. I've laid hands on a few original FSb prototypes and they are fantastic.


Based on recent these samplings, the PAF Pro just is a clearer, more open sounding pickup.  It's been good enough for Vai and Gilbert and Satch. It should be worth the OP checking it out. If the OP doesn't like it, it will be easier to sell than a FSn. Win-win for the OP.

[RayBarbeeMusic]

"Based on recent these samplings, the PAF Pro just is a clearer, more open sounding
pickup. "

Except that in reality, what you claim is utter hogwash. 

I've used PAF Pros, I know what they sound like.  Too muddy in the neck for my taste.  I've installed about 200 or so FSNs in guitars, my own and customer's who wanted a non-muddy, articulate neck pickup.  I've compared it, modded and un-modded, to dozens of other pickups that claim to be "single coil like" or otherwise non-muddy, bright, articulate, and found nothing to beat it, modded or unmodded.  The PAF Pro isn't even remotely in the running compared to even those dozens of other pickups I've put against the FSN, let alone the FSN itself.

[DarthPhineas]

Except that in reality, what you claim is utter hogwash. 

I've used PAF Pros, I know what they sound like.  Too muddy in the neck for my taste.  I've installed about 200 or so FSNs in guitars, my own and customer's who wanted a non-muddy, articulate neck pickup.  I've compared it, modded and un-modded, to dozens of other pickups that claim to be "single coil like" or otherwise non-muddy, bright, articulate, and found nothing to beat it, modded or unmodded.  The PAF Pro isn't even remotely in the running compared to even those dozens of other pickups I've put against the FSN, let alone the FSN itself.

meh.... nope.



that concludes today's lesson in 'what it looks like to not agree with someone without being an arrogant ass'

[darkbluemurder]

I still have a FSn at home not installed in anything yet but I have a candidate for it. I will chime in once I get around to putting it in the guitar.

[darkbluemurder]

Finally I got around to putting the FSn into a guitar - it's a partscaster tele with a maple neck and rosewood board - and I am so glad I did. I also removed the 3 hex poles just as Ray described and that tightened the low end even further. The clarity this thing has now is almost unreal, yet it sounds like a humbucker on the high strings - no thin tones at all.

Many thanks Ray for the tip, it is very much appreciated.

Cheers Stephan