DiMarzio Forum
DimarzioForum.Com => The Pickup Place => Topic started by: gregr on December 28, 2022, 04:13:09 PM
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Hey all…
What are you using in your SSS Stratocasters?
Rules:
-Single-spaced pickups only. They can be any kind of pickup so long as they are in the traditional single-coil form factor.
-They can be traditional or noiseless.
-At least one pickup must be a DiMarzio.
Too many to list? Please share your favorites.
Feel free to go into as much or as little detail as you like.
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I use the following SSS combinations (going from bridge to neck, favorite models highlighted in bold):
Virtual Solo or Injector bridge
Area 58 or 61
Area 67 or Virtual Vintage 54 Pro, depending how bright the guitar is
Cheers Stephan
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I need to experiment with the hotter stacked singles, specifically the Injector Bridge; maybe the Solo, but I feel more comfortable with humbuckers in the bridge position. I don’t see myself liking the HB2.
I really like the Virtual Vintage Blues with a pair of Area 67s. I also like the Injector Neck in the bridge with a 58 in the middle and either a 58 or 61 in the neck depending on my mood in between string changes.
The Area 58 is a solid middle pickup. It isn’t overly thin like a 67 but still has plenty of glass. It seems to hold up well against an Area 61 or 54 Pro in the neck. I think the Area 61 works well in the middle with hotter pickups, though vintage glassy quack starts to go away. The Area 61 with the Satch Track in the neck wired in parallel is a beautiful sound once you get the heights just right.
In general I don’t like putting a thin and weak pickup in the middle in order to load down a much hotter pickup (e.g., the Area 67 in the Injector set). I prefer the voicing of each location to be heard in positions 2&4. Besides, I find position 3 unusable when the middle position contains a thin pickup. With this in mind I’ll put a 58 in the middle with a 67 in the neck but not the other way around. If I want a hotter-than-vintage neck pickup I may opt for a somewhat weaker middle as a compromise, just not a 67.
I really like the 54P in the neck with hotter pickups in the bridge and a 58 in the middle. On my guitar with the 58/54P combination, the bass and mids of the 54P are shelved down to optimize quack. This is hard-wired in position 4 using a 5-way Super Switch. I like to use a volume control with a treble bleed with this pickup as well. I‘m using a Lil’ Screamin Demon in the bridge with this pair. It’s my favorite single sized humbucker so far. I love this combination.
Lastly, the Fast Track 1 sounds great in the bridge against a 54P in the neck. This is probably the best mate for the 54P that I’ve tried.
To recap (B/M/N):
VVB/67/67
InjN/58/58 (or 61)
Lil Demon (or FT1)/58/54P
Chopper/61/InjN (or Satch)
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That is exactly why I prefer 67 neck and 58 middle and not the other way round. The 58 in the middle seems to work well with the 67 in the neck and with a hotter bridge pickup. It also works well with a VV 54 Pro in the neck.
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I have been using
Chopper - Bridge
Cruiser Bridge - Middle
Cruiser Neck - Neck
For awhile and I'm really liking it. I'm thinking of trying the fast track on the bridge but I'm not sure if it might be too overpowering
Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
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Fast Track 2. Contrast isn’t a bad thing. It works great with a crunchy amp where you can clean up or go balls out, especially with an overdrive.
I just finished a build for a friend:
-61/58/58
-250k pots
-The middle tone control is assigned to the pair of Area 58s using a 22nF cap.
-The outside tone control is assigned to the Area 61 using a 1.8nF cap in series with a 5.1k resistor.
I’d likely take extra time to reverse the magnetic polarity of the middle 58 in order to split it and the 61 for position 2 if the guitar were mine.
I decided to have a little fun before that by going with an Injector Neck in the bridge with the Area 58 in the middle and an Area 61 in the neck. I then incrementally dropped the 61 down to the 58 before finally swapping the Injector out for the 61 as originally planned. I haven’t run these combinations all in the same guitar before so this was a somewhat different experience for me. All were good combinations, but I liked the hottest combo best. The InjN/58/58 was fine but I prefer the 61/58/58 because the quack is better in position 2 as well as the balance between the 58 in the neck and the 61 in the bridge. Likewise I prefer the 61 in the neck over the 58 in the neck against the Injector Neck in the bridge. I’ll take heat over the quack if I’m going to go in that direction.
The 1.8nF tone cap really transforms the 61. The low pass, aided by the resonance just below the cutoff frequency that just starts to creep up as the highs begin to fall away, focuses the upper mids to drive an edgy amp into crunch territory. The series resistor optimizes the range of the control. I’m not a fan of the cockled-wah sound that happens when the tone resistance goes all the way down to zero.
As I mentioned earlier between the two in the neck, I think I also prefer the fatter 54 Pro over the 61 in the bridge. Like the description, the 54 Pro compresses and gets fatter as you dig in rather than the more dynamic 61 which stays lean and still stings. For a more vintage output bridge pickup I prefer the DP402 Virtual Vintage Blues over both in the bridge, however.
EDIT: I misattributed the resonance that occurs when the tone control is rolled back to the Gibbs phenomenon.
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Thanks I'll look into FT2, I was also considering tone zone s but I'll stick with the chopper till then.
Has anyone tried splitting the rail pickups? I tried parallel wiring once for the cruisers but did not like it, I was wondering if the single coil mode will be better.
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The Fast Track 1 is weaker than the Chopper so I don’t think it will be of any interest to you. That is why I specified the Fast Track 2 which was probably what you meant. Objectively speaking, the Pro Track would be a less extreme option if you want to go hotter than a Chopper. I’m not trying to make any recommendations one way or another.
I’ve used a 3-way to get split, series and parallel modes on the FT2 as well as on a few other dual rail designs. I’ve found that the weaker designs are too thin split and especially brittle-sounding when in parallel. As you go hotter splitting gives you more of a dominant midrange quality that is warm rather than sounding more like a single coil as one might hope. While brittleness in the parallel mode starts to subside with hotter winds, the tone still lacks focus and still doesn’t have much body. Doing this in the neck position can yield ok results because of the location, but I find this all fairly underwhelming.
The American Standard Strat I just did had a Seymour Duncan Duckbucker in the neck. It’s still a dual side-by-side coil design but there are only three pole pieces under the treble strings in one coil and three under the bass strings in the other and these coils are connected in parallel. I believe the pickup is intended to go in the middle position for 2&4 quack. It’s very weak so quack is largely achieved this by thinning out the bridge or neck pickups by loading them down. It does its job more or less; for better or for worse. It sounds pretty bad all by itself AFAIC. Why the former owner put one in the neck of this guitar and left the stock single coils in the bridge and middle is a mystery to me. The only point being is that it’s a perfect example of trying to achieve a single coil sound out of a parallel rail design. It’s one thing to be able to run a pickup in parallel as an alternative mode, but to run it in parallel as the sole mode of operation is not for me.
Another pickup to consider is the Super Distortion S which is said to work well in both split and parallel modes. I don’t have any personal experience with this one.
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I see, thank you for the insights
Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
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I just finished a build for a friend:
-61/58/58
-250k pots
-The middle tone control is assigned to the pair of Area 58s using a 22nF cap.
-The outside tone control is assigned to the Area 61 using a 1.8nF cap in series with a 5.1k resistor.
The 1.8nF tone cap really transforms the 61. The low pass, aided by the Gibbs effect, focuses the upper mids to drive an edgy amp into crunch territory. The series resistor optimizes the range of the control. I’m not a fan of the cockled-wah sound that happens when the tone resistance goes to zero.
I am also a fan of small tone caps and use anything from 820pf or 1000pf for a humbucker or 0.0015uf to 0.0022uf for single coils.
Cheers Stephan
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I think the 61 definitely needs a small cap. I worked my way down from 3.9nF but didn’t go as low as 1.5nF. 1.8nF is good with edge of break-up, but is borderline nasal when playing clean, so I should try 1.5n. I never felt the need to do this with the VVB, but I should give it a shot. With my amp dialed for Area 67s in the neck and the middle the VVB in the bridge already sounds pretty thick, yet still delivers pretty good quack with the 67 in the middle.
So I ended up changing the 22nF middle tone control so that it’s a master control. I didn’t like the discrepancy in volume between position 1 (bridge only) and the rest of the positions it was rolled back.
The 250k bridge tone control was changed to a no-load in order to get some additional brightness out of position 2. It was too dark relative to that of position 4. I don’t think this adequately addresses the issue, however. I think the trouble is that the Q of position 4 is too high due to there being only the single master tone control. I know the master tone can just be rolled down farther, but I don’t like having to fiddle with it when switching to and from position 4. The actual problem I have with position 2 is that it has a minor deficiency in high frequency extension which is due to the 61’s hotter wind.
The best way I can think of to fix the issues I’m having with the 61/58/58 set is to use a 5WSS:
1: bridge w/outside tone control
2: bridge and middle, both split
3: middle
4: neck and middle w/240k resistor placed in parallel with the middle tone control
5: neck
The outside tone control would be only be selected in position 1 and would be 250k/1.8nF. The middle tone control would serve as a master and would be 250k/22nF. The volume control would be 250k. The middle Area 58 would be converted to RW/RP.
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I am also a fan of small tone caps and use anything from 820pf or 1000pf for a humbucker or 0.0015uf to 0.0022uf for single coils.
Cheers Stephan
1.5nF sounds even better.
Thanks Stephan!
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1.5nf = 0.0015uf = 1500pf.
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I take credit for the cap size, I was doing it before anyone else afaik.
.0015uf cap bridge singles or FT1. .001uf bridge humbucker (chopper for instance). .0022uf neck/middle single, .0033uf or .0047uf in parallel positions. I always use a super switch. Regular 5 ways are so 1950s and pedantic...
One tone dedicated to bridge only, and it only operates in switch position 1. 2nd tone controls the other 4 positions, but may use different cap sizes in different positions, see above.
500k (ones that measure 500k plus ONLY) in all positions except when doing the super duper series option wiring (I showed this to Stephan, but I'd appreciate it not being shared).
ALWAYS a 3 way switch in position 4 that offers: Neck + middle parallel like standard strat, all 3 parallel, neck + bridge parallel.
Various Options:
Basic:
Bridge: Chopper bridge, FT-1 (with resistor to create 250k load for bridge only), or Injector Bridge. Chopper sounds like a PAF in spite of what Dimarzio claims. Injector sounds like a hot bridge single but when the .0015uf tone is rolled back, does the Ritchie Blackmore thing very well and can approximate a P90 or PAF. FT-1 does much the same as the Injector Bridge, but IMO has a little more output, low end, and smooths out more as the tone is rolled back, plus it's really GD bright with 500k load which means in position 2 it quacks nicely with the middle. Also why position 1 gets a 250k load if I'm using FT1.
Middle: '61 sometimes with Chopper, otherwise '67 or '58. '67 always with the super duper series option due to darkness issues in series. Sometimes a 1M resistor to ground creating a 333k load on middle position ONLY, depending on the guitar.
Neck: '67. Period. Nothing beats it for articulation. Sounds awesome with the 12-54 strings I generally use on strats, even with 11-52 still very SRV ish.
Super Duper switching gets Injector Bridge or FT-1 and two 67s always. Offers the 5 way strat stuff noted above, plus 3 series options in position 1 that have a high pass filter to get rid of the bloated lows that result from spaced singles in series, and when in series see a 1M load and no tone to deal with the darkness issues of spaced singles in series.
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Wow, that is a lot to absorb.
I did an HSH build with a 5WSS a while back. The combo is a PAF Pro, FT1 and BNIB. I’m splitting coils and connecting them in series for the quack positions. Passive circuitry is used to shape the tone. I tried uploading a sample comparing position 2 of a Strat (Areas 58 and 61) to the equivalent tone on my HSH but the forum doesn’t allow mp4.
Today I revisited partially splitting and shaping both a Satch Track and a Chopper to combine with an Injector Neck in the middle position. The Chopper is doing pretty well but the Satch Track isn’t cutting it. It’s really warm and doesn’t have enough output to get a useable single coil voicing in the top end. This is exacerbated by shelving down the mids and bass in order to even out the rest of the tone.
I’m really trying to like this combination but I really need to take a step back and be honest with myself about it. I think the solution for single coil tone in the neck for positions 4 and 5 is to just use a Lace Sensor Silver and flank it with the Satch Track on the inside for the fatter humbucker tone. I think I mentioned that a couple years back but still haven’t pulled the trigger. My other issue is that I’m becoming disenchanted with the Chopper, unfortunately. To me it has an identity crisis. I know the common consensus here is that it sounds like a PAF. I don’t really agree; I think the description on the product page is more accurate.
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I take credit for the cap size, I was doing it before anyone else afaik.
I experimented with smaller caps (although not that small) before I had access to the internet but for those specific values Ray is right.
.0015uf cap bridge singles or FT1. .001uf bridge humbucker (chopper for instance). .0022uf neck/middle single, .0033uf or .0047uf in parallel positions. I always use a super switch. Regular 5 ways are so 1950s and pedantic...
Fully agree on the values, except that I normally use the same value for everything but the bridge position for simplicity.
The regular switch severely limits the options because the positions are fixed. Although I use it in the following setup: bridge Lollartron, middle/neck Injector neck - very simple setup, nothing fancy there.
One tone dedicated to bridge only, and it only operates in switch position 1. 2nd tone controls the other 4 positions, but may use different cap sizes in different positions, see above.
500k (ones that measure 500k plus ONLY) in all positions except when doing the super duper series option wiring (I showed this to Stephan, but I'd appreciate it not being shared).
A separate tone control for the bridge pickup is very useful. In fact I have one guitar where the only tone control only controls the bridge pickup - no tone control on the neck pickup.
Again, thanks for the assistance with the wiring. It will not be shared. Any PM requests insofar will be ignored.
Cheers Stephan
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I replaced the Satch Track with a Fast Track 1 that arrived in the mail yesterday. I decided to go with more of a single coil vibe than a humbucker vibe. While I still like the idea of flanking the Satch track with a Lace Sensor Silver I opted to keep things simple. Besides, I know the drop in output with the Silver would drive me crazy.
As most of you know already, the Fast Track 1 in the neck balances very well with the Chopper in the bridge. I was unsure about how the Injector Neck in the middle would fare, however. It’s a tad thin through the mids but it has no trouble keeping up with the Fast Track. Position 4 is surprisingly good even with the Injector dummy coil active, though it still sounds better without it. Position 2 with the white/green coil shunted on the Chopper with an RC network combined with the Injector without the dummy coil already sounds great. A 5WSS and this pickguard might well be finished.
I’m still debating the pots but what I have going on is pretty good. It has a 500k volume with a Kinman treble bleed, 250k tones with 22nF, one tone for the neck and the other for the middle and bridge. The Injector is loaded down with 510k. Thanks to the 500k volume the Fast Track has plenty of brightness on tap to cut so I’m able to keep the tone backed off. I’m probably going to use a linear taper for that one. I think I’ll disconnect the back tone control on position 4.
I’m really not a big fan of rail pickups in a Strat to be honest, but these DiMarzios allow me to get Stratty tones without requiring gobs of gain to crunch and sing.
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I’m finishing up another pickguard which I think is noteworthy. This time it was built around the Fast Track 1 in the bridge.
As you may already know the Fast Track 1 sounds like a single coil with humbucker tendencies. It is dynamic with a lot of output. It’s lean with a healthy amount of treble, though it lacks the pure bell sound and top end chime of a single coil, though additional presence can be had with larger value pots without sounding brittle. It can get strident with 500k controls, however.
An Injector Neck was fitted in the neck position which I believe is an excellent match, both in terms of output as well as frequency response. Like with the Fast Track 1 it can benefit from larger pots and can produce some really nice chime in split mode.
The middle position was fitted with an Area 61 which compliments the other two pickups nicely, both in terms of frequency response as well as dynamics. It’s a tad lean but well worth it since it’s able to deliver nice quack with the Injector when both are split. I reversed the polarity of the Area 61 with neodymium rod magnets so that hum is cancelled in positions 2 & 4.
The volume control is a B500k with a treble bleed that is 220pF in series with 20k. The middle control is currently an A500k with a 22nF cap acting as a master tone control. The outer control is a B500k with an 820pF cap acting as a presence control. It is only active in position 5 (neck only), where it is combined with the master tone control. I’ve configured the other end of the control so that it begins shunting the noise cancelling coil of the Injector around 8, fully shorting it when on 10. The active coil of the Area 61 is currently hard-wired with a 240k shunt resistor and the Fast Track 1 is currently shunted with a 510k resistor in position 1 (bridge only).
EDIT: The master tone control will later change as will the loading.
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I found that linear pots (BXXX) work best for clean and semi-clean tones, especially with a treble bleed. For higher gain tones I cannot hear much happening until I turn it down almost completely.
Injector neck is a great choice for the neck position, in particular with 500k pots.
I am still to try a Fast Track 1 in either neck or bridge position.
Cheers Stephan
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You’re absolutely right about using a linear taper for the volume control. I don’t like the large initial drop in volume you get with an audio taper, especially on a Strat pickguard where it sits so close to where my hand is. Because of the treble bleed, I treat the volume control as another tone control and the linear taper gives me a more precision. My rhythm tone is medium gain and I’m still able to clean up by rolling the volume back and by lightening up my touch.
The Injector definitely benefits from a lighter load, though the 250k total load from a pair of 500k pots is not enough. If I were only using two controls one would be a 500k and the other would be 250k, which is essentially what I am getting with three 500k controls (167k). The problem with reducing the load too much is that a spike begins to develop in the top end. The real key to getting an extension in frequency response with the Injector Neck lies in shunting the dummy coil. Configuring the second tone control the way I did I am able to do both. Again, the linear taper allows for more precision at the upper end of the control. I also use a series resistor with tone controls in order to prevent the cocked-wah sound.
The Fast Track 1 excels in all three positions. It’s a very versatile pickup. I first tried it in the bridge many years ago and liked the tone but it wasn’t what I wanted at the time. It’s reminiscent of the FS1, perhaps more-so than the Injector Neck which is closer to the FS1 in terms of specifications. The Injector Neck also makes an excellent bridge pickup, though I prefer the Virtual Vintage Blues for the extra sparkle.
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The Injector definitely benefits from a lighter load, though the 250k total load from a pair of 500k pots is not enough. If I were only using two controls one would be a 500k and the other would be 250k, which is essentially what I am getting with three 500k controls (167k). The problem with reducing the load too much is that a spike begins to develop in the top end. The real key to getting an extension in frequency response with the Injector Neck lies in shunting the dummy coil. Configuring the second tone control the way I did I am able to do both. Again, the linear taper allows for more precision at the upper end of the control. I also use a series resistor with tone controls in order to prevent the tone from folding over, allowing me to quickly get the exact sound I want without undershooting.
My observations were quite similar. In two different guitars where I had Injector necks with 500k volume and tone they were a bit stiff sounding. Using a no-load tone pot solved that. In another guitar however removing the tone control load made the guitar too sizzly in the top end whereas with the 500k tone control the top end was nasal. A 1 meg tone control was the happy medium where I landed.
I did not want to shunt the shunt coil as I wanted to preserve the hum-cancelling ability.
Cheers Stephan
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I don’t like having the tone up high when playing single coils with much gain, so hum from running the Injector with a compromised dummy coil will never be an issue for me.
I’ve used the Injector Neck in all three positions in various guitars. While it is warmer than a traditional vintage single coil, I have never found it to be lifeless. Of course there are many factors involved that will influence how a pickup sounds, not the least of which being the materials used for the bridge and how you set your amp.
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I ended up using a 500k/250k dual-gang, single-shaft pot for the master tone control. It was the only way I could do everything I needed to do after exhausting all four poles for positions 2 & 4 on the 5-way super switch.
The final tally for the loading:
bridge (Fast Track 1): 125k
bridge & middle: 250k
middle (Area 61): 125k
middle & neck: 100k
neck (Injector Neck): 125k
Position 2 could possibly benefit from a lighter load. A 1 Meg pot for the volume control might make a slight improvement, though I don’t think it’s worth the effort since the Fast Track 1 simply won’t achieve the same result as a single coil. As it is, position 2 sounds good and is definitely useable.
I’m satisfied with the amount of chime for all of the other positions. The Area 61 in noise cancelling mode loaded with the standard 125k was my baseline for matching positions 4 and 5. With the exception of position 2, there was still room to go brighter, so the values chosen were free from the limitation of too little pot resistance; keep in mind that the noise cancelling coils aren’t being used in positions 2 & 4, and the noise cancelling coil on the neck pickup is dependent on the outer tone control that’s only active in position 5.
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Wow - certainly not an easy task to finish - congrats!
Based on those values my guess is that your guitar is quite bright.
Cheers Stephan
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Thanks!
Imagine an Area 61 in the middle position of an average Fender American Standard with 250k pots. I don’t think the guitar is particularly bright for what it is. The Injector Neck without the noise cancelling coil is akin to a more powerful version of the Area 61 with the noise cancelling coil. The load of three 250k pots is 83k, so in the case of position 4 consider it like having a 250k volume with a 250k tone in parallel with a 500k tone instead. This makes the position slightly brighter than with vintage Strat wiring.
I’m doing additional things to optimize each position considering the mismatches between the pickups, as well as voicing the FT1 warmer to work better with distortion, but I think just summarizing the loading is able to paint the general picture.
After this project I’ve come to the realization that the Fast Track 1 is the only single-sized humbucker that I like in the bridge position out of everything I’ve tried, including The Chopper. For anything hotter I prefer a full-sized humbucker.
Just for the sake of comparison I’m toying with the idea of dropping in a pickguard with an Area 67 in the neck, Area 58 in the middle and a Virtual Vintage Blues in the bridge. I’ll be sure to post about it in the event that I do. If the guitar turns out overly bright then an Area 58 in the neck with an Area 61 in the middle and the Injector Neck in the bridge might work better, though I don’t have a spare Area 61 or Injector Neck on hand. (Please disregard; as much as I would like to build another set based on an Injector Neck in the bridge, doing it for the sake of being darker than the other set listed is wrong-headed on my part).
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With the same load, the Area 67 is a lot brighter than an Injector neck in the same pickup position. As a rule of thumb, when I like an Area 67 with 250k, I mostly like an Injector neck with 500k. The 67 is still a bit brighter than the Injector neck with these loads.
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The 67 is still a bit brighter than the Injector neck with these loads.
Reducing the load on the Injector neck with 500k pots won’t change its resonant frequency. I would instead consider an Area 61 and continue using 250k pots for a more traditional (less pointy) sounding response with the additional desired brightness, adjusting the heights of the pickups to help address the reduction in output if necessary. I intentionally chose the Injector for its warmer top end and output to keep up with the Fast Track 1 for distorted tones.
The exercise of swapping the pickguard for a vintage output set would be to determine whether the guitar was excessively bright, though I don’t believe it is. If it was excessively bright and I wanted the generous amount of chime provided by the vintage output set then I would use a brass block, perhaps changing out the saddles as well depending on the severity.
While the clean tones on this guitar are really nice, I’ll reach for a different guitar if I want the skinny Strat sound. As it is this guitar works well along side other guitars equipped with humbuckers. In a pinch I can plug straight in and get very useable Strat sounds without any adjustments. That’s the beauty of the Fast Track 1. It does an excellent job bridging the chasm between single coils and humbuckers. With the voicing I’ve applied and the values I’ve chosen for the tone control in position 1, it can get downright chunky with it rolled back yet still have enough output to be even with the rest of the positions, from the mid-bass through the low-treble without sounding honky.
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I’m diggin’ the Fast Track 1 so much that I just swapped out a VVHB2 for one in the neck of my HSS.
I’m in the midst of wiring, so nothing is final, but I’m treating it differently from the way I’m using it in the bridge in terms of loading and voicing.
Because it has so much output and treble it can be sculpted to work with weaker single coils in various ways. And because it has so much output it keeps up with the humbucker in the bridge much better than the VVHB2, saturating much more easily; and like the VVHB2 it isn’t getting muddy.
I also liberated the VV54P from the middle position so that I can use it and the VVHB2 with a Virtual Solo on a future project. The VV54P was replaced with an Area 58, wired so that only the top coil is active for the two quack positions. It is a better match for the screw coil of an A2-loaded JB, also allowing me to split the Fast Track 1 fairly aggressively, though still not completely.